Wow, a big to do over the "angry flyers" that no one seems to have seen. Mr. Lesh must be a very sensitive man if he gets terrorized by having to see some posters objecting to his project. Have there never been posters in Marin before? How is the community to know where Mr. Lesh prefers to walk in the morning? Do the citizens of Marin have an obligation to insure that Mr. Lesh can walk each day without seeing anything he objects to? Perhaps Marin can provide a dedicated path for Mr. Lesh's walks that will be pristine and exclusively for him. This is beyond bizarre.

Please indulge my ignorance, but I don't understand. Is the graphic with the bright red stop signs accompanying this article meant to be a depiction of the flyer encountered by Phil Lesh on his walk for coffee? Whatever it is, it seems designed to inflame reaction and comment on an issue where the discussion at this point in time can only truly be based on (possibly well-informed) conjecture and rumor. I wish we could just move forward with the permit application process so we would have some hard facts regarding the impacts Terrapin Crossroads might have on our community. The Terrapin venue may already be dead in the water for Fairfax, but holding a public trial for it without any real evidence to present seems pretty pointless.

Tony -- the picture is just a screenshot of the facebook group Stop Terrapin Landing, which was just to demonstrate some of the opposition to the project. I was just trying to illustrate a different point - instead of another picture of the rendering of the project.

What an embarrassment. People acting like spoiled children. Hey people - "this is why we can't have nice things."

What's worse is that SOMEONE in this group put the signs up, the rest know WHO did it. Yet they are all acting like "How dare the Leshs accuse us....We just don't know who did that (eyes fluttering)." Exactly Thomas, adults doing things and then acting like (meaning not taking responsibility for ones self and actions) children !

Why are people evil if they oppose Terrapin Landing?
There are good points and bad points to most projects, and both voices must be equally heard.

I don't think people are "evil" for opposing something. I think they're prejudiced, since they were opposing something they new nothing about.

I agree that all voices should be heard. There's a time and place for that to happen...and that time hadn't even begun yet.

There's a difference between "free expression" and "being an asshole".

"Stalking" is a very severe word to use. Is it known for a fact that the flyers placed in Ross were hung exclusively along Phil's coffee route? Isn't it also possible that someone who knew the Lesh address, just parked in downtown Ross, and then hung flyers on the walk to Phil's home? I am in no way condoning this action, but I also would not characterize whoever did this as an "intimidating, cowardly, stalking, terrorist scumbag" until I had some valid proof or at least some verifiable information. I have as much trouble with the language used in this debate as I do with the fact that we are even having such an intense debate before anyone has had the chance to look at some real hard data. I had hoped to learn a lot about how this whole process works. I already know all I want to know about squabbling.

I notice that Phil isn't planning to put this in the town that HE lives in. Guess he believes in NIMBY.

Richard, I'm at a loss to see the connection between the current proposed location in Fairfax vs. Ross as being a basis for NIMBYism?!? I believe you've invoked a strawman ... as my suspicion is that Phil would like to travel as little as possible.

Richard- Think you are missing the point. Whether what this flyer person did was legal or illegal, it's creepy, it smacks of someone watching u and knowing your walking route. I think if someone did this to you, it would feel a little unerving and I don't think it would be any less unnerving if you thought it was legal. Secondly, whether it is legal or not it is extremely childish and silly behavior for an adult to display. Thirdly, the neighbors have repeated several times that Phils rep said (when he met with them way back) that if they met too much opposition they wouldn't want to submit the proposal, the neighbors jumped on this statement and since then have been doing everything in their power to create a huge intimidating noise from the opposition. As soon as Phil actually filed for the use permit, they have been in hyperdrive, submitting letters to every news outlet, interviews with news stations, inflammatory fliers posted at a home for seniors and a funeral for a child. There are reasons why we have democratic systems in place to deal with these types of issues, let that process happen before u assume u know everything and how it will impact our town. There are so many people in town who want this to happen including most of the local merchants, they have every right to see this process thru to determine how it might impact our town. This small faction of opponents are trying to thwart that for the entire town and that is BS no matter how u want to look at it.

Then butt out Richard, as there are many more details to this story that you obviously know nothing about. It goes beyond your black and white argument re: freedom of speech.

The article is about a resolution to condemn speech and, no, I will not butt out.

The resolution was about condemning incivility in the Town's permitting process. EVERYBODY at the Town Council meeting agreed that engaging in civil discourse and not harassing people, whether opponents or proponents, is appropriate. I think that's the bottom line here. We have a public process and those who posted the signs were trying to influence that process. By doing so they succeeded -- so far -- in hijacking the opportunity for the rest of us to participate in that process - it was not their statements but the manner in which they presented those statements that crossed a line from free speech into harassment/stalking/whatever you want to call it and I am appreciative of everyone who came to the Council meeting, including all the Council members, who made it clear that a line was crossed that should not have been.

The purpose of free speech is to influence the process

What process? There has been no process. Even speech has its bounds, as I'm sure you're aware, Richard. Can't yell Fire in a crowded theater, libel, slander - all ways in which Free Speech has boundaries. I would argue that free speech can go too far if it constitutes harassment, i.e., unwanted physical contact, use of epithets, inappropriate jokes, comments or innuendos, obscene or harassing telephone calls, e‑mails, letters, notes or other forms of communication, and, any conduct that may create a hostile environment - in this case the hostile environment was the town's planning process - a process where all the residents of the town are supposed to be able to exercise our free speech in terms of proposals that go before our planning commission and our town council - and we didn't have a chance to do that because somebody decided to observe a celebrity going about his private business - and, rather than communicate with him through the town's process, make him feel threatened. Whoever did this used intimidation to completely sabotage a process in which we all in this Town should have been able to participate. So that is what this is about. I am hoping that Phil and Jill Lesh reconsider submitting their proposal to our Town and I am hoping that civility will win out - Have a great Saturday!

Well, Mimi, you obviously do not believe in free speech. If Phil felt threatened it is entirely on him and no one else.

Richard, perhaps if you had said "Well, Mimi, you obviously do not believe in absolute free speech" it might have been more accurate. Do you believe in absolute free speech?

@Richard - oh, but I do - hence this conversation. I think it's great! We need to keep a civil dialogue going and all agree to hear each other out. But I don't think it's "entirely on him" if Phil felt threatened - it's on the whole community AND the Leshes, unfortunately. As a public figure, I think it's entirely reasonable for Phil Lesh to have felt very uneasy about the signs. You and I might react differently, probably having a significantly smaller sphere of people who know who we are to worry about . . . hopefully (-;

Hah, I really like the word "froghtened." Nice word, in an otherwise obtuse conversatin about free speech, terrapin landing, and expressing oneself. It would appear to this one that absolute free speech would include yelling "fire" in crowded places, or anywhere, and leaving the interpretation, etc, up to the smarts of whoever had the fortune to hear it.

Personally, I don't think the signs were any great big deal. Not well thought out perhaps, and whoever did it had a right to post signs, and free speech, etc. The wording was nothing terribly offensive, and, I would be a little creeped out. Being famous, can have drawbacks, and trying to build a large commercial enterprise, anywhere, involves press, and some heat. All part of the process.

Free speech, liberty, etc, can be kinda sticky, irritating, and messy, especially when we may not agree with others positions and beliefs, and many of us would wish to limit them for others at times, without hindering ourselves?

The "real" questions are can we just be kind, or listen to each other, and get along?

Communication is messy. Between what we assume, what we believe, what we think, and what we hear, everything is obfuscated by misinterpretation, earwax, hormones, misunderstanding or outright misinformation, and it is a wonder any 2 people can understand each other at any time, period.

And I wonder why there is so much war in the world, rather than education, healthcare, community caring, and just plain love?

Another act of vandalism: Someone (and we know who they are) walked onto my father's property and ripped in half the STOP TERRAPIN CROSSROAD sign. The second time this was done the SA police were notifed and an incident report was made. The SA Police were notifed again and this "incident report" has now escalated to the next step. We know this happened because we have incident report number, but do we know that the posters in Ross ever really happened? Probably not. The Ross Police Dept do no have an incident report and the Leshes needed publicity and played the "poor me card".

Kathy - sorry to hear it; but glad to hear you know who did this & are taking steps to hold them accountable.

Keo, I am in the Stop Terrapin Landing Facebook page and I have no idea who posted the flyers, so quit it with your broad generalizations about who knows what. Sowing paranoia is a bad way to promote community.

Hey Ellen, placing flyers everywhere telling the seniors and community members that this is going to be a horrible thing for our community when there are so many who want this in the community, is certainly not promoting positive community vibes. Just b/c YOU don't know doesn't mean others don't.

Relax Keo, the folks with another opinion than yours have just as much right to be vocal about not wanting the venue, and to voice their freedom of speech and expression. Honestly, it is more on anybody wanting to effect change in, on, or around a community, to appease fears, and doubts, and be convincing, than the other way around. Likewise, folks should at least remain open and be willing to consider a proposition. Neither side should steamroller, dismiss, or minimize the others points, and there are good and bad possibilities here.
People do have valid concerns, which need to be addressed, without being bullied by either side.
Hey, lets build a nuclear power plant in town folks, lots of jobs and cheap energy you say...... and certainly nothing to worry about, etc.
One persons DDT on their morning cereal is another persons bane.
The point and bottom line for all of it is, what are the real effects and changes going to be, and how do both sides get past the spins, and judge the project on what it will give or take from the town, AND act/choose accordingly?
Education and beliefs are tricky things.
Outside of nature, human rules, laws and ways of being and doing, are pretty illogical and insane, and we would do best to start living and acting with all nature held in the equation, and not just 5 or 20 years worth of $ profits, while other parts of the equation are being exploited.

Thi is crazy making. Did you even see the flyers that were handed out to the residents informing them of Terrapin Crossroads? I would say more than 2/3 of FAIRFAX residents did not know about this nightclub or they had heard a rumor. There was not any fear what so ever written on them. It was just the facts for anyone to read and understand and then they can make their own decision if this is what they want in Fairfax. Can we move on now?

You know what's creepy? Keo knows my first name. It's not in my profile or my email address. Are you a friend of mine Keo?

Classic neocolonialism in the guise of wine, song and revelry! Don't take the bait Fairfax. I, like so many of us, had my oil changed at this site in 1992. Where I'm from that qualifies as cultural heritage. Make no mistake, for West Marin, this would be the cultural equivalent of the Three Gorges Dam.
Join our FaceBook Page to help stop this and Save our Abandoned Heritage!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/FairNAGS/205437729529921

Fairfax already lost it's one architectural gem and historic building when the Lucky building was torn apart for the new Good Earth. There are so few examples left of butt ugly mid century concrete boxes and we should preserve them for the future. Likely the gas station is more of a superfund site than a cultural heritage, and perhaps some well placed mycelium could clean it up?