Politics & Government

Live updates from the PG&E listening session

Check back for updates on the community outreach session.

I will be posting live updates from the first of two PG&E listening sessions, held in response to Fairfax residents' concerns about the Smart Meter program. The listening session runs from 7 to 9 p.m. at the Women's Club in Fairfax.

7:00 p.m. There's less than six people -- who are not with PG&E or the town council -- here. I thought they were doing these sessions because everyone was outraged about the smart meters?

7:05 p.m. OK, now there's 14 people here and a TV camera. Apparently, we just move slowly.

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7:09 p.m. Someone is asking if we were supposed to start at 7? Apparently, the sign at the entrance to town says 7:30.

7:13 p.m. Problems with the projector. There's a joke to be made about the problems with technology for a presentation about the problems with a new technology.

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7:15 p.m. Maybe about to start now? There's closer to 20 people here now.

7:16 p.m. Mayor Lew Tremaine: There seems to be confusion about whether we're starting at 7 p.m. or regular council time of 7:30 p.m. We're going to start in the middle -- 'which is now.'

7:17 p.m. Tremaine: This meeting is to "hear concerns or support, if there's any of that." First joke of the night.

7:17 p.m. Tremaine: PG&E has never said they will honor the moratorium for the full year. "So, that may be a fight to come."

Next of these public meetings on Sept. 29.

7:19 p.m. There will be a presentation, then chance for public to voice concerns and questions, while PG&E representative listen. They will come back on Sept. 29 with answers.

Tremaine: Convinced Marin Energy Authority to have subcommittee talk with PG&E.

7:21 p.m. Tremaine: Conversations need to be taking place at the higher level, instead of individual towns each talking about the issues. Work together!

7:22 p.m. Council member Larry Bragman: Extending appreciation to PG&E for 'offering yourselves up.' San Anselmo directed staff to draft similar ordinance to our's last night. You will hear similar concerns tonight.

7:24 p.m. Bragman: Lists lots of concerns, but 'I've never had a problem with PG&E employees.' Reminding the audience to extend courtesy to employees -- probably because a PG&E employee reported to the police being harassed last week!

7:25 p.m. Tremaine: PG&E reps here to talk about smart meters, they are not the people to yell at about Prop. 16 or San Bruno. We have strived hard to "make sure we maintain a modicum of civility. Let's all be respectful of one another this evening."

Reps from PG&E: James Morante -- Northern Region, Public Relations; Steven Nichols -- Northern Region Director of Service and Sales

7:28 p.m. PG&E reps: We're not talking, listening and have people taking notes.

Talk about the Structure independent report -- primarily focused on accuracy and billing -- and gave "a complete clean bill of health."

7:29 p.m. Rep: The company viewed it as a regular "lines and wires" issue. Only realized after that it's more important to people than a regular maintenance issue.

"We're not here to respond, necessarily. It's not a debate."

7:32 p.m. Mary Beth Brangan is giving a version of the same presentation she made in San Anselmo last night.

7:34 p.m. Brangan: No democratic choice, no environmental impact studies.

7:35 p.m. Brangan: Claim to save energy, but the whole build-out is a waste of energy -- so many meters on buildings. Plus, the increase in "phantom load" -- ie. that the meters would still be on and using energy all the time.

7:36 p.m. Brangan: To use the energy-monitoring system within the home, we would have to buy additional appliances to measure and send data to smart meter. This is in addition to the $2.2 billion the meters will cost and the rate increases.

More people still coming in.

"It's very doubtful that many people believe the Structure report." Lawsuit over billing inaccuracies.

7:39 p.m. Now, we're onto safety issues. Brangan: Could interfere with people with medical devices. Fires.

Security issues -- Brangan: "Hackers will find a way around security measures."

We're hitting every major issue right away!

7:41 p.m. Brangan: Health issues -- it will "increase the layer of electric smog."

People who have already had meters installed, measured and found them emitting constant bursts of radiation.

7:43 p.m. Brangan: More and more people becoming sensitive to electro-magnetic frequencies, just like chemical sensitivities they build up over time.

Sensitivities recognized by the ADA as a disability now.

FCC testing standards -- don't take into account real-life situations and "obsolete" in today's environment.

7:44 p.m. Brangan: We want to modernize grid, be energy efficient, and be protected from "corporate over-reach."

7:45 p.m. First public comment of the night -- "I know what most of us really wanted tonight was to be at another meeting and not at home."

7:47 p.m. Different radio frequencies, amounts, and times quoted at different times. Will PG&E have an independent study done to quantify the amounts? 

7:48 p.m. When child leukemia occurs and parents want to remove meters for cautionary reasons, will PG&E honor that?

If detrimental health effects are proven in the future, does PG&E have adequate liability to cover the damages for all the people of California? 

Interesting questions.

7:49 p.m. APPLAUSE

Yvette Wakefield: Reads letter from friend. The intent is good, "but the implementation is insanity."

7:51 p.m. Still from letter: "Who are these wizards or gods so intent on changing what's left of the Earth's magnetic fields?"

7:52 p.m. The meter readers also serve the purpose of checking in the streets, wires, pipes by walking every month. There will be more problems and fires without them.

7:53 p.m. From letter: "I am not willing to be an 'oops' statistic in the future."

7:54 p.m. APPLAUSE

7:55 p.m. Resident: My father worked for PG&E and I loved them. "It grieves me now that they are someone I am in fear of."

Smart Meter installed at the woman's house -- she pauses to ask the PG&E reps to maintain eye contact with her (in fairness, they took that well) -- why didn't they tell her about it before? It's outside her bedroom wall, when it is active will she be harmed?

7:57 p.m. Where did the Smart Meter program come from? Why was an impact study not done first and community addressed first? 

They'll be conducting medical experiments on humans, given all the known and unknown harms. Where does the Western Institutional Review Board stand on this issue (it's the board that reviews scientific experiments)?

7:59 p.m. Years ago, PG&E gave this woman a free energy audit to show her the emissions from devices, so she could make adjustments. Will they do that again or does she have to buy the new devices?

8:00 p.m. APPLAUSE

8:01 p.m. Mark Bell, Fairfax resident, "by next Spring, you'll just be a bill collector" because most residents have MEA.

One of the big arguments against MEA was that you had to opt-out instead of opt-in, but you're giving us neither.

Bell: $2.2 billion -- "I was on a plane a few weeks ago and looked at SkyMall and could buy the same technology for $100, which means wholesale it's probably $40, which means in a year I can have it as an app on my iPhone for $5."

PG&E should spend the money to buy "really, really, super good" power strips to stop phantom energy use instead.

LAUGHTER/APPLAUSE

8:03 p.m. Tremaine encourages people to "tone down the sarcasm."

8:04 p.m. Important announcement: Toyota out front your lights are on. There's just over 30 people here now.

8:06 p.m. Resident: PG&E quoted amount of emission is average overall including when off, but when it is transmitting it's 1,000 times stronger than a cell phone?

There's a lot of really technical questions now. The PG&E reps are writing a lot.

8:08 p.m. "Wouldn't it be better if we waited until there were actual health and safety studies done?" And federal agencies haven't developed standards on the meters.

"One day it will be like the cigarette companies coming back after years of claiming cigarettes are safe."

8:10 p.m. Diane Hoffman, Fairfax resident: "I don't think individual opt out is good enough. I would like the town of Fairfax to be smart meter free."

BIGGEST APPLAUSE YET.

Will PG&E respect sign on meter or do I need a lock on my gate?

8:11 p.m. Woman wants to know why some people have had them installed already if there is a moratorium?

8:12 p.m. Sarah Riley: "I have electro-magnetic sensitivity" and live in Fairfax because of awareness after years of living in isolation. 

"I know the impacts of RF on human physiology. I know them personally and I know them scientifically."

Your expert at the PG&E open house said they had never measured the levels inside the homes. "We should do that."

8:14 p.m. Effects, Riley says: nausea, confusion, irritability, distractedness

8:15 p.m. Riley: Proven that RF in this spectrum breaches the blood brain barrier -- brain reacts to all cells in brain when invaded and creates brain swelling.

8:17 p.m. Riley: "These signals may be invisible, but they have an impact."

APPLAUSE

8:18 p.m. Woman from San Francisco here looking for house in Fairfax, because they're installing the meters around her house in San Francisco. She had her meter taken out, because she got extremely sick in July.

8:19 p.m. In other countries, use fiber-optic and pilot programs. Some countries even ending program.

8:21 p.m. I keep looking over at the PG&E reps. They are maintaining completely neutral expressions and looks of thoughtful concentration even while everyone keeps yelling at them. I don't know if I would want their job.

8:23 p.m. "You need to go back and say we need to rethink this program."

8:24 p.m. Resident: Even if you'll lose money, you're still making plenty of money. "There's loans."

The council members are managing not to laugh or make faces either.

APPLAUSE

8:25 p.m. Janet, resident: Wants to know roll-out plan; there are currently meters being installed despite moratorium?

8:26 p.m. "Are we going have to escalate our action and go to a lawsuit?" 

8:27 p.m. Peter Lacroix: Has a meter inside the house -- meter reader actually looks at it through the window. In that situation, will PG&E make an exception? It's right in his living area.

8:28 p.m. Jim Rice: Neighbor across the street started getting headaches since July; asked if he had a smart meter installed? Yes, in July.

"Apply to you for exemptions? Why should we have to do that?"

APPLAUSE

8:29 p.m. Hannah Doress: Big effort to buy home and maintain as a young family. "It's painful to me that other people want to come in and do things to my home without my permission, close to my child's bedroom."

"One of those American values" we're not considering.

8:30 p.m. Doress: Now that PG&E is not a public utility, but a private company that makes a profit and that has a history of continuously disregarded my, my family, and my country's health, has no right.

Doress: Talked to PG&E rep at time and there was a threat of a lawsuit from the rep if she tried to stop them from installing a meter. "Detente."

8:32 p.m. "I think we're going to be a huge pain for you guys and I really would like to save you the trouble." Let people higher up know this community isn't going to take this lightly.

APPLAUSE

8:33 p.m. David, resident: What is happening here in Fairfax is happening all over the country -- struggle against a major corporation.

Health and welfare of major corporations v. health and welfare of the public.

8:34 p.m. David: PG&E was allowed to pass a rate increase to upgrade gas pipes in San Bruno and it was supposed to be done by 2009 and PG&E pushed it off to 2014 and we see what happened.

8:35 p.m. Barbara George -- Women's Energy Matters: Your time this evening, are you charging us ratepayers or shareholders? How many consultants have you hired to try and figure out how to force people to take the meters?

8:37 p.m. George: What happened to all the alternatives to the wireless grid?

8:38 p.m. George: In this whole education campaign (and 12 PR lobbying departments), are you going to tell people how they can reduce the load without the smart meters?

8:39 p.m. Inviting people to learn how to be an intervener in the California Public Utilities Commission -- that would be an interesting/mind-numbing job.

8:40 p.m. Woman talking about the collapse of the bee population. Could be electro-magnetic frequencies? Precautionary principle!

8:41 p.m. Last speaker? DeeDee Taylor -- lived in Italy during roll-out of fiber-optic smart meters. People were very excited at the time. Accompanied by huge solar roll-out and revamping of grid. Not similar to here.

8:43 p.m. Close the public hearing.

8:44 p.m. Council member David Weinsoff: "Good luck answering all the questions by Sept. 29." Impressed by the specificity and homework of questions.

Weinsoff: I may be the most conservative member here -- merely pretty left of center instead of very left -- but no one on the conservative side has said anything good about the smart meters to me and everyone is against them! "To me that is remarkable. There is unanimity in the community of concern about this."

8:46 p.m. Council member Pam Hartwell-Herrero: Thank you to the community. They really did their homework. I would like to see all questions listed and written responses and if one isn't answered then why not.

8:47 p.m. Hartwell-Herrero: "Just because something was done somewhere else, doesn't mean it's ok." Interrupted with APPLAUSE.

Hartwell-Herrero: All studies of smart grids don't show any reduction of energy use even with intensive grids. Better bang for your buck elsewhere.

8:48 p.m. Council member Larry Bragman: Said my piece last night in San Anselmo and don't want to repeat all the points. Hit on the head: conflict between community and corporation.

8:50 p.m.: Bragman: Democracy or corporatecracy? Rights of people with sensitivity, rights of property owners, right to privacy.

8:51 p.m. "We can not bolt on the Bill of Rights to the Smart Meter system after its deployed." We need a system to deal with data and privacy before.

Bragman: My question is: is PG&E going to disconnect the antennas that were installed without going through the town's permitting process?

8:53 p.m. Council member John Reed: Sept. 29 is soon to get through all these questions. Different questions asked by different people. "Pick your issue."

8:55 p.m. Reed: A smart grid is important, could change how we use our energy. I have a time-use meter on my house and it runs forward and backwards because I sell electricity to the grid.

8:57 p.m. Reed: A lot of the privacy issues could be resolved by looking at larger units -- by block or by town. Add that question to the long, long list.

8:59 p.m. Reed: You don't need a smart meter to use energy intelligently.

Two weeks is a short time to really deal with the questions and really dive into them?

9:00 p.m. PG&E rep: The dates were set by council. So, it's up to you.

Tremaine: "Feel free to say you need more time."

PG&E rep: We don't want to create the appearance of stalling for time.

9:01 p.m. Tremaine: You only need to look at the fact that Ross and Belvedere are as concerned as Fairfax to get this is not a left-wing issue.

Take the time you need to answer these questions thoroughly, because they were well thought out.

9:02 p.m. Tremaine: Most interested in question of roll-out, plan, time-frame, what's been done so far. "There's a lot of rumors right now."

9:03 p.m. Tremaine: Would like to talk to the contractor PG&E is using locally, so we can all be "up to speed." They're the ones being tossed into the snake pit.

9:04 p.m. How much time will it take to answer questions in full? What is a good amount of time?

9:06 p.m. I thought Tremaine was wrapping up, but he's saying he really wants answers to the questions of how much EMF? What is the amount being emitted at the point of transmission?

9:08 p.m. Tremaine: Not enough talk before roll-out. Not enough talk about what a smart grid actually is. (It's true -- I'm a little unclear.)

9:10 p.m. Marin County is the only place where PG&E has a shared service area with someone: Marin Energy Authority. [Not if they could help it!] Why can't we run the signals back against the wires?

9:11 p.m. Voice from the audience says it won't work, because bad for people with sensitivities.

9:12 p.m. Hartwell-Herrero: It's been my experience that PG&E has extraordinary resources and could meet the deadline.

9:13 p.m. Ex-Mayor and MMWD candidate Frank Egger showed up! He wants to know why there are meters on Meadow Way! There is one at 4 Meadow Way, he says, let's go see it!

Tremaine: If you've had a meter put on, then you need to let the town know. The owner needs to contact the town. And the town will take action: cite the company and PG&E that did it.

"We will be defending our moratorium. We just need to know."

APPLAUSE

9:14 p.m. It's turned into chaos.

Egger yelling that they shouldn't be denying they're installing meters. Why are they saying that? "They're lying to you!"

Tremaine: I need you to come into order.

Someone else is yelling about the antennas on telephone poles. Tremaine trying to assure everyone they're not operational or transmitting yet.

9:16 p.m. Back to the question of when the next meeting should be?

9:17 p.m. Barbara George: If we take longer, then they will take longer. Keep earlier date, because "you are going to get some answers that do not answer your questions." And you'll have to have them come back again and again.

APPLAUSE

9:18 p.m. OK, we will continue this "conversation" on Sept. 29.


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